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Tesla Model 3 : le road-trip européen vire au drame
Le road-trip européen en Tesla Model 3 de You You Xue a tourné court ce vendredi 25 mai. Victime d’un accident sur une autoroute grecque, le conducteur affirme que sa voiture a soudainement viré, dénonçant de graves dysfonctionnements dans le système Autopilot de la marque californienne.
L’accident est survenu ce vendredi 25 mai sur une autoroute à proximité de Florina, en Grèce, où You You Xue poursuivait son parcours. « Je n’étais pas fatigué après 8 heures de sommeil la nuit précédente… mon Autopilot était réglé à environ 120 km/h, soit la vitesselimite imposée. L’autoroute était bien balisée, bien entretenue et bien éclairée. Les conditions étaient sèches, et il n’y avait pas de circulation autour de moi » justifie le conducteur dans un long message explicatif publié ce samedi 26 mai sur sa page Facebook.
En d’autres termes, toutes les conditions étaient en théorie prévues pour que le système d’assistance à la conduite de Tesla fonctionne correctement. Et pourtant, tout ne s’est pas passé comme prévu. Arrivé à un embranchement, You You Xue explique que sa Model 3 a soudainement viré « avec force ». « Je jetais un coup d’œil à la navigation sur mon téléphone, et ne prêtais pas attention à la route » avoue le conducteur qui a tenté de corriger la trajectoire. Trop tard… la voiture électrique de Tesla a violemment percuté le séparateur, mettant définitivement un terme à l’aventure.
« Je n’ai pas été blessé dans la collision, et aucun soin médical n’a été apporté. Je portais ma ceinture de sécurité avant et pendant la collision. Aucun des airbags ne s’est déployé. »détaille-t-il.
Pneu avant gauche éclaté et importants dommages sur toute la partie gauche, la Model 3 de You You Xue est hors d’usage et a du être remorquée. « Je déciderai bientôt s’il est logique ou non de ramener cette voiture aux États-Unis afin de la réparer, car le coût de la réparation du véhicule peut dépasser largement sa valeur » explique le conducteur.
Un « dysfonctionnement grave » du logiciel
Une main sur le bas du volant, la seconde sur le genou et un manque d’attention sur la route… Si You You Xue avoue ne pas avoir suivi les recommandations de Tesla liées à l’utilisation de l’Autopilot, le conducteur dénonce un dysfonctionnement « grave » du logiciel de la marque californienne.
« Je tiens à préciser que je prends la responsabilité de mes actions. Cela étant dit, je ne crois pas qu’il y ait beaucoup de propriétaires de Tesla qui, lorsqu’ils utilisent Autopilot, gardent toujours les deux mains sur le volant et accordent toute leur attention à la surveillance de la route et du logiciel » insiste-t-il. « Cette collision a été directement causée par un dysfonctionnement grave du logiciel Autopilot et une mauvaise interprétation de la route. Cette collision aurait pu arriver à n’importe quel conducteur qui ne s’attend pas à ce qu’une voiture voyageant à grande vitesse en ligne droite, soudainement et sans avertissement, dévie de sa trajectoire » poursuit-t-il.
« Après des dizaines de milliers de kilomètres d’Autopilot sans incidents majeurs, j’ai appris à faire confiance au logiciel. De toute évidence, j’étais devenu trop confiant » analyse-t-il.
« Je crois que si le pilote automatique a la moindre chance de mal interpréter un embranchement, il ne devrait pas être testé en bêta par les consommateurs » dénonce You You Xue, précisant que d’autres cas similaires ont déjà été signalés. « Un accident mortel impliquant l’Autopilot sur un Model X peut avoir été causé par un dysfonctionnement similaire » souligne t-il.
Si ce nouvel incident ravive les débats autour de la fiabilité de l’Autopilot, il remet également sur le devant de la scène la question du développement des voitures autonomes.
« Je crois fermement en la capacité des véhicules autonomes de non seulement éliminer toutes les collisions sur la route mais aussi de révolutionner notre société. Cependant, des dysfonctionnements comme celui-ci réduisent grandement la confiance du public dans une technologie qui devrait en effet être testée et déployée auprès du public dès que son utilisation est sûre » insiste You You Xue, s’estimant « reconnaissant d’être en vie après ce qui aurait pu être une collision mortelle ».
« Je ne veux pas causer de dommages à Tesla sur sa marque ou son image car je soutiens totalement sa mission et reste un grand supporter. J’espère seulement que Tesla va enquêter sur cet incident pour déterminer ce qui ne va pas avec le logiciel, et apporter des améliorations » insiste le conducteur qui termine tout de même son message par une note positive. « A travers trois continents et 25 pays, j’ai rencontré plus de 8.000 personnes sur la route et j’ai démontré qu’il est non seulement possible de conduire un véhicule électrique à travers le monde, mais qu’il est absolument exaltant et permet de vivre de belles aventures ».
Un modèle « non homologué » pour l’Europe
MAJ – 26.05.2018 – 13h40
Interrogé par Electrek, Tesla a commenté l’accident.
« Bien que nous apprécions les efforts de You You Xue pour faire connaître la Model 3, il a été informé que Tesla n’est pas encore présent en Europe de l’Est et qu’il n’y a pas de connectivité ou de service disponible pour les véhicules là-bas. De plus, la Model 3 n’a pas encore été approuvée et homologuée pour circuler à l’extérieur des États-Unis et du Canada. Bien que nous n’ayons pas été en mesure de récupérer des données du véhicule étant donné que l’accident s’est produit dans une zone non prise en charge, Tesla a toujours été clair sur le fait que le conducteur doit rester responsable de la voiture en tout temps lors de l’utilisation de l’Autopilot » a précisé un porte-parole du constructeur…
http://www.automobile-propre.com/tesla-model-3-road-trip-europeen-vire-drame/
Tesla Model 3 Road Trip
25 mai, 23:19 ·
Statement
Re: Model 3 crash on Autopilot
Statement regarding collision
26 May 2018
FLORINA, GREECE
Thank you everyone for your kind wishes and messages of support following the collision late yesterday night. This is an absolutely devastating loss for me and brings a great journey to a sudden end.
I was driving southbound on highway E65 near the city of Florina, Greece. I was headed towards Kozani, Greece, where I planned to charge and spend the night. At this time, I was not tired after having 8 hours of sleep the previous night. I engaged Autopilot upon entering the highway after crossing the border between Macedonia (FYROM) and Greece. My Autopilot maximum speed was set at approximately 120 km/h, the speed limit for this highway. The highway was well-marked, well-maintained, and well-lit. The conditions were dry, and there was no traffic around me. The highway was two lanes in each direction, separated by a concrete median. The highway in my direction of travel divided at a fork, with the #2 right lane changing into the exit lane, and the #1 left lane remaining the lane for thru traffic. I was travelling in the #1 lane.
My left hand was grasping the bottom of the steering wheel during the drive, my right hand was resting on my lap. The vehicle showed no signs of difficulty following the road up until this fork. As the gore point began, approximately 8m before the crash barrier and end of the fork, my Model 3 veered suddenly and with great force to the right. I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road. I was startled by the sudden change in direction of the car, and I attempted to apply additional grip onto the steering wheel in an attempt to correct the steering. This input was too late and although I was only a few inches from clearing the crash barrier, the front left of the vehicle near the wheel well crashed into the right edge of the barrier, resulting in severe damage.
I was not harmed in the collision, and no medical attention has been sought. I was wearing my seatbelt before and during the collision. None of the airbags deployed.
My Model 3 is not drivable as the front left wheel is completely shattered, and the axle is out of alignment. The damage is severe on the left of the front bumper, running to the front lip of the driver’s door, and is moderately severe from there to the left of the back bumper. The vehicle has been towed to a shop, and at 09:00 today, I will accompany the vehicle on a tow truck to Thessaloniki. I am towing the car there under recommendation from locals as more resources are available there, including resources to repatriate the vehicle back to the United States. I will make a decision soon as to whether or not it makes sense to bring this car back to the United States in an attempt to fix it, as the cost to repair the vehicle may substantially exceed its value after repair or salvage value.
Tesla states in an on-screen warning that both hands should be on the wheel when Autopilot is activated. Furthermore, Tesla states that drivers should be paying attention and monitoring the performance of Autopilot at all times. It is likely true that if all drivers obeyed the warnings surrounding this software, that most of the collisions we hear about in the press would never happen. Autopilot has limitations that currently can only be overcome through human intervention. For example, it cannot detect stationary objects, which explains collisions where Model S has rear-ended stationary vehicles parked on the side of the road.
By looking at my navigation and by not having both hands on the wheel, I was not paying full attention to the road while the vehicle was in Autopilot and was not following Tesla’s directions in regards to the correct use of the software. I want to make it clear that I take responsibility in regards to my actions. With that being said, I do not believe that there are many Tesla owners who, when using Autopilot, always keep both hands on the wheel and provide their undivided attention to monitoring the road and the software. This collision was directly caused by the Autopilot software seriously malfunctioning and misinterpreting the road. This collision could have happened to anyone who does not expect a car travelling at a fast speed in a straight line to suddenly and without warning, veer off course.
After tens of thousands of kilometres worth of Autopilot driving without major incidents, I have learned to trust the software. Autopilot provides users with a strong sense of security and reliability as it takes you to your destination and navigates traffic on your behalf. Clearly, I had become too trusting of the software.
Autopilot is marketed as a driver assistance feature that reduces stress and improves safety. However, the vigilance required to use the software, such as keeping both hands on the wheel and constantly monitoring the system for malfunctions or abnormal behaviour, arguably requires significantly more attention than just driving the vehicle normally without use of Autopilot. Furthermore, I believe that if Autopilot even has the small potential of misreading a clearly marked gore point, and has the potential to drive into a gore point and crash into a barrier, it should not be tested in beta, on the open road, and by normal consumers. My experience is not unique as many drivers have reported similar behaviour from Autopilot, and a fatal crash involving Autopilot on a Model X may have been caused by a disturbingly similar malfunction.
Many Tesla fans will likely dismiss this as fully my fault, but I implore those who believe so to take a full step back and put themselves in my shoes, as a driver who had used this amazing software for so long, and who could not have anticipated such a sudden and violent jerk of the wheel to one direction while travelling at a fast speed. I hope that my fellow owners will be less dismissive of various incidents regarding Autopilot, and understand that the general public views these severe collisions differently from the owner community. Tesla is moving quickly into the mass market, and potential customers in that segment aren’t going to ask, “why were both of his hands not on the wheel while the car was in Autopilot?”, rather, they are going to ask “why did the car swerve into the gore point without warning?”. The autonomous driving movement as well as the Tesla community can only get stronger when we tackle these questions and resolve the issues behind them.
I love my Teslas and I have owned a Tesla since 2014. I am upset with myself for being part of the growing list of individuals who have been involved in collisions while their Tesla was on Autopilot. I strongly believe in the capability of self-driving vehicles to not only eliminate all collisions on the road but to revolutionise our society. However, malfunctions like this greatly reduce the public’s confidence in a technology that should indeed be tested and rolled out to the public as soon as it is safe for use. I do not want to cause Tesla damage to its brand or image as I wholly support its mission and I am a big supporter. I only hope that Tesla will investigate this incident to determine what went wrong with the software, and make improvements that will enhance other people’s experiences with the car.
I am very grateful to be alive after what could have easily been a fatal collision. This incident was not more severe thanks to an excellent crash barrier on the Greek highway. I want to thank everyone again for your messages of support. I am honoured to have had this opportunity to spread the EV movement not only around my country but around the world. In closing, I want to address some of my critics who have used this collision to laugh at me or to otherwise make fun of this incident. On this road trip, there have indeed been crazy posts where I push the limit of my car and I have only done these things to share my excitement about my Model 3 with others. Please understand that there was nothing out of the ordinary occurring before this collision. I was not sleeping at the wheel, I was not tired, I was not eating at the wheel (which by the way, I have not done before), no videos were being filmed - the vehicle was being operated normally. I am truly sorry and deeply regret that some of my actions have caused a bad taste in people’s mouths, I ask those people to judge my road trip thus far as a whole and not by my craziest or worst moments. I have met with over 8000 people on the road in three continents and 25 countries, and have demonstrated that not only is it possible to drive an EV across the world, it is absolutely exhilarating and brings along great adventure along the way. I have also seen the potential and power of the EV owners community, which when leveraged, can make a great difference in our world. I ask those who disapprove of my actions to reconsider their stance, and I want to see what positive things can come of this collision.
What happens next on this road trip is uncertain. I will keep everyone posted.
Tesla Model 3 : le road-trip européen vire au drame
- Michaël TORREGROSSA
Le road-trip européen en Tesla Model 3 de You You Xue a tourné court ce vendredi 25 mai. Victime d’un accident sur une autoroute grecque, le conducteur affirme que sa voiture a soudainement viré, dénonçant de graves dysfonctionnements dans le système Autopilot de la marque californienne.
L’accident est survenu ce vendredi 25 mai sur une autoroute à proximité de Florina, en Grèce, où You You Xue poursuivait son parcours. « Je n’étais pas fatigué après 8 heures de sommeil la nuit précédente… mon Autopilot était réglé à environ 120 km/h, soit la vitesselimite imposée. L’autoroute était bien balisée, bien entretenue et bien éclairée. Les conditions étaient sèches, et il n’y avait pas de circulation autour de moi » justifie le conducteur dans un long message explicatif publié ce samedi 26 mai sur sa page Facebook.
En d’autres termes, toutes les conditions étaient en théorie prévues pour que le système d’assistance à la conduite de Tesla fonctionne correctement. Et pourtant, tout ne s’est pas passé comme prévu. Arrivé à un embranchement, You You Xue explique que sa Model 3 a soudainement viré « avec force ». « Je jetais un coup d’œil à la navigation sur mon téléphone, et ne prêtais pas attention à la route » avoue le conducteur qui a tenté de corriger la trajectoire. Trop tard… la voiture électrique de Tesla a violemment percuté le séparateur, mettant définitivement un terme à l’aventure.
« Je n’ai pas été blessé dans la collision, et aucun soin médical n’a été apporté. Je portais ma ceinture de sécurité avant et pendant la collision. Aucun des airbags ne s’est déployé. »détaille-t-il.
Pneu avant gauche éclaté et importants dommages sur toute la partie gauche, la Model 3 de You You Xue est hors d’usage et a du être remorquée. « Je déciderai bientôt s’il est logique ou non de ramener cette voiture aux États-Unis afin de la réparer, car le coût de la réparation du véhicule peut dépasser largement sa valeur » explique le conducteur.
Un « dysfonctionnement grave » du logiciel
Une main sur le bas du volant, la seconde sur le genou et un manque d’attention sur la route… Si You You Xue avoue ne pas avoir suivi les recommandations de Tesla liées à l’utilisation de l’Autopilot, le conducteur dénonce un dysfonctionnement « grave » du logiciel de la marque californienne.
« Je tiens à préciser que je prends la responsabilité de mes actions. Cela étant dit, je ne crois pas qu’il y ait beaucoup de propriétaires de Tesla qui, lorsqu’ils utilisent Autopilot, gardent toujours les deux mains sur le volant et accordent toute leur attention à la surveillance de la route et du logiciel » insiste-t-il. « Cette collision a été directement causée par un dysfonctionnement grave du logiciel Autopilot et une mauvaise interprétation de la route. Cette collision aurait pu arriver à n’importe quel conducteur qui ne s’attend pas à ce qu’une voiture voyageant à grande vitesse en ligne droite, soudainement et sans avertissement, dévie de sa trajectoire » poursuit-t-il.
« Après des dizaines de milliers de kilomètres d’Autopilot sans incidents majeurs, j’ai appris à faire confiance au logiciel. De toute évidence, j’étais devenu trop confiant » analyse-t-il.
« Je crois que si le pilote automatique a la moindre chance de mal interpréter un embranchement, il ne devrait pas être testé en bêta par les consommateurs » dénonce You You Xue, précisant que d’autres cas similaires ont déjà été signalés. « Un accident mortel impliquant l’Autopilot sur un Model X peut avoir été causé par un dysfonctionnement similaire » souligne t-il.
Si ce nouvel incident ravive les débats autour de la fiabilité de l’Autopilot, il remet également sur le devant de la scène la question du développement des voitures autonomes.
« Je crois fermement en la capacité des véhicules autonomes de non seulement éliminer toutes les collisions sur la route mais aussi de révolutionner notre société. Cependant, des dysfonctionnements comme celui-ci réduisent grandement la confiance du public dans une technologie qui devrait en effet être testée et déployée auprès du public dès que son utilisation est sûre » insiste You You Xue, s’estimant « reconnaissant d’être en vie après ce qui aurait pu être une collision mortelle ».
« Je ne veux pas causer de dommages à Tesla sur sa marque ou son image car je soutiens totalement sa mission et reste un grand supporter. J’espère seulement que Tesla va enquêter sur cet incident pour déterminer ce qui ne va pas avec le logiciel, et apporter des améliorations » insiste le conducteur qui termine tout de même son message par une note positive. « A travers trois continents et 25 pays, j’ai rencontré plus de 8.000 personnes sur la route et j’ai démontré qu’il est non seulement possible de conduire un véhicule électrique à travers le monde, mais qu’il est absolument exaltant et permet de vivre de belles aventures ».
Un modèle « non homologué » pour l’Europe
MAJ – 26.05.2018 – 13h40
Interrogé par Electrek, Tesla a commenté l’accident.
« Bien que nous apprécions les efforts de You You Xue pour faire connaître la Model 3, il a été informé que Tesla n’est pas encore présent en Europe de l’Est et qu’il n’y a pas de connectivité ou de service disponible pour les véhicules là-bas. De plus, la Model 3 n’a pas encore été approuvée et homologuée pour circuler à l’extérieur des États-Unis et du Canada. Bien que nous n’ayons pas été en mesure de récupérer des données du véhicule étant donné que l’accident s’est produit dans une zone non prise en charge, Tesla a toujours été clair sur le fait que le conducteur doit rester responsable de la voiture en tout temps lors de l’utilisation de l’Autopilot » a précisé un porte-parole du constructeur…
http://www.automobile-propre.com/tesla-model-3-road-trip-europeen-vire-drame/
Tesla Model 3 Road Trip
25 mai, 23:19 ·
Statement
Re: Model 3 crash on Autopilot
Statement regarding collision
26 May 2018
FLORINA, GREECE
Thank you everyone for your kind wishes and messages of support following the collision late yesterday night. This is an absolutely devastating loss for me and brings a great journey to a sudden end.
I was driving southbound on highway E65 near the city of Florina, Greece. I was headed towards Kozani, Greece, where I planned to charge and spend the night. At this time, I was not tired after having 8 hours of sleep the previous night. I engaged Autopilot upon entering the highway after crossing the border between Macedonia (FYROM) and Greece. My Autopilot maximum speed was set at approximately 120 km/h, the speed limit for this highway. The highway was well-marked, well-maintained, and well-lit. The conditions were dry, and there was no traffic around me. The highway was two lanes in each direction, separated by a concrete median. The highway in my direction of travel divided at a fork, with the #2 right lane changing into the exit lane, and the #1 left lane remaining the lane for thru traffic. I was travelling in the #1 lane.
My left hand was grasping the bottom of the steering wheel during the drive, my right hand was resting on my lap. The vehicle showed no signs of difficulty following the road up until this fork. As the gore point began, approximately 8m before the crash barrier and end of the fork, my Model 3 veered suddenly and with great force to the right. I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road. I was startled by the sudden change in direction of the car, and I attempted to apply additional grip onto the steering wheel in an attempt to correct the steering. This input was too late and although I was only a few inches from clearing the crash barrier, the front left of the vehicle near the wheel well crashed into the right edge of the barrier, resulting in severe damage.
I was not harmed in the collision, and no medical attention has been sought. I was wearing my seatbelt before and during the collision. None of the airbags deployed.
My Model 3 is not drivable as the front left wheel is completely shattered, and the axle is out of alignment. The damage is severe on the left of the front bumper, running to the front lip of the driver’s door, and is moderately severe from there to the left of the back bumper. The vehicle has been towed to a shop, and at 09:00 today, I will accompany the vehicle on a tow truck to Thessaloniki. I am towing the car there under recommendation from locals as more resources are available there, including resources to repatriate the vehicle back to the United States. I will make a decision soon as to whether or not it makes sense to bring this car back to the United States in an attempt to fix it, as the cost to repair the vehicle may substantially exceed its value after repair or salvage value.
Tesla states in an on-screen warning that both hands should be on the wheel when Autopilot is activated. Furthermore, Tesla states that drivers should be paying attention and monitoring the performance of Autopilot at all times. It is likely true that if all drivers obeyed the warnings surrounding this software, that most of the collisions we hear about in the press would never happen. Autopilot has limitations that currently can only be overcome through human intervention. For example, it cannot detect stationary objects, which explains collisions where Model S has rear-ended stationary vehicles parked on the side of the road.
By looking at my navigation and by not having both hands on the wheel, I was not paying full attention to the road while the vehicle was in Autopilot and was not following Tesla’s directions in regards to the correct use of the software. I want to make it clear that I take responsibility in regards to my actions. With that being said, I do not believe that there are many Tesla owners who, when using Autopilot, always keep both hands on the wheel and provide their undivided attention to monitoring the road and the software. This collision was directly caused by the Autopilot software seriously malfunctioning and misinterpreting the road. This collision could have happened to anyone who does not expect a car travelling at a fast speed in a straight line to suddenly and without warning, veer off course.
After tens of thousands of kilometres worth of Autopilot driving without major incidents, I have learned to trust the software. Autopilot provides users with a strong sense of security and reliability as it takes you to your destination and navigates traffic on your behalf. Clearly, I had become too trusting of the software.
Autopilot is marketed as a driver assistance feature that reduces stress and improves safety. However, the vigilance required to use the software, such as keeping both hands on the wheel and constantly monitoring the system for malfunctions or abnormal behaviour, arguably requires significantly more attention than just driving the vehicle normally without use of Autopilot. Furthermore, I believe that if Autopilot even has the small potential of misreading a clearly marked gore point, and has the potential to drive into a gore point and crash into a barrier, it should not be tested in beta, on the open road, and by normal consumers. My experience is not unique as many drivers have reported similar behaviour from Autopilot, and a fatal crash involving Autopilot on a Model X may have been caused by a disturbingly similar malfunction.
Many Tesla fans will likely dismiss this as fully my fault, but I implore those who believe so to take a full step back and put themselves in my shoes, as a driver who had used this amazing software for so long, and who could not have anticipated such a sudden and violent jerk of the wheel to one direction while travelling at a fast speed. I hope that my fellow owners will be less dismissive of various incidents regarding Autopilot, and understand that the general public views these severe collisions differently from the owner community. Tesla is moving quickly into the mass market, and potential customers in that segment aren’t going to ask, “why were both of his hands not on the wheel while the car was in Autopilot?”, rather, they are going to ask “why did the car swerve into the gore point without warning?”. The autonomous driving movement as well as the Tesla community can only get stronger when we tackle these questions and resolve the issues behind them.
I love my Teslas and I have owned a Tesla since 2014. I am upset with myself for being part of the growing list of individuals who have been involved in collisions while their Tesla was on Autopilot. I strongly believe in the capability of self-driving vehicles to not only eliminate all collisions on the road but to revolutionise our society. However, malfunctions like this greatly reduce the public’s confidence in a technology that should indeed be tested and rolled out to the public as soon as it is safe for use. I do not want to cause Tesla damage to its brand or image as I wholly support its mission and I am a big supporter. I only hope that Tesla will investigate this incident to determine what went wrong with the software, and make improvements that will enhance other people’s experiences with the car.
I am very grateful to be alive after what could have easily been a fatal collision. This incident was not more severe thanks to an excellent crash barrier on the Greek highway. I want to thank everyone again for your messages of support. I am honoured to have had this opportunity to spread the EV movement not only around my country but around the world. In closing, I want to address some of my critics who have used this collision to laugh at me or to otherwise make fun of this incident. On this road trip, there have indeed been crazy posts where I push the limit of my car and I have only done these things to share my excitement about my Model 3 with others. Please understand that there was nothing out of the ordinary occurring before this collision. I was not sleeping at the wheel, I was not tired, I was not eating at the wheel (which by the way, I have not done before), no videos were being filmed - the vehicle was being operated normally. I am truly sorry and deeply regret that some of my actions have caused a bad taste in people’s mouths, I ask those people to judge my road trip thus far as a whole and not by my craziest or worst moments. I have met with over 8000 people on the road in three continents and 25 countries, and have demonstrated that not only is it possible to drive an EV across the world, it is absolutely exhilarating and brings along great adventure along the way. I have also seen the potential and power of the EV owners community, which when leveraged, can make a great difference in our world. I ask those who disapprove of my actions to reconsider their stance, and I want to see what positive things can come of this collision.
What happens next on this road trip is uncertain. I will keep everyone posted.